Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Osaka, Japan
    Posts
    3,758
    Total Downloaded
    184.30 MB

    March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    This month's topic is coming to you a little early... mostly because people are already starting to talk about this topic. The topic is, obviously, DRM (Digital Rights Management) and Piracy. Since the announcement in the GamePro interview that Runic Games' first game, expected to be released this year, is going to be Single Player, people are obviously worried about how DRM and Piracy are going to affect the success of Runic Games' first title.

    With that said, this month's question is:
    How would you make/distribute a Single Player game to protect your game against piracy without inconveniencing the customer?

    Some things to consider:
    • So long as DRM is software based it will likely always be possible to hack a game[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]
    • Some games use techniques that make the game crash if it detects any kind of hack/mod/etc changing the code, but this can lead to false impressions of poor quality[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]
    • Some companies have decided to ignore DRM altogether[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]
    • Single Player games that require online verification every time the game opens exist under some companies[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]
    • Any money lost to piracy is money that hurts the company[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]
    • DRM methods that severely inconvenience the buyer can lead to a loss of sales as well[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]
    • Many DRM methods that currently exist may affect people who legally buy a game but are using other programs on the computer for illegal purposes at the same time (DaemonTools may be an example of this)[/*:m:1lw0dvh0]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Austria, Graz
    Posts
    20
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    I think I would implement just a littel community online feature where you can upload cool screenshots and other users can have a glimbse at your characters and look which achievents you have unlocked or whatever. Something that doesnt really change the game but you have a reason to make a player log into something. If the players does not want to he doesnt hav to but he will always have the feeling of missing something if he does not have a Runic Games Community account (which by the way can only be created with a valid key!).

    Classic copy protection wont be present in any form because It think that this is kind of useless. If someone wants to pirate a game he will find a way to do it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    134
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    Make the game as good as possible and sell it at a reasonable price and don't worry about DRM beyond maybe just a key code included in the manual.

    Reasons. If it's a good game people will buy it, there is a lot of people who still prefer to buy instead of pirating. Regardless of how much DRM is placed in a game it can be broken/bypassed and pirated if someone wants to. Any intrusive DRM just makes the legal buyer have far more problems then the pirate, and/or promotes bad press (sony Rootkit etc)

    That's for single player, if it was online then I would copy the Guild Wars model... cheap initial price and no monthly fees. Something must be working as they are still going strong. Infact I've just bought the bonus mission pack £5.99 and Nightfall £14.99

    Though it's easy for me to say as it's not my wage packet that's at risk ;-)
    Nostalgia... Isn't what it used to be

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Osaka, Japan
    Posts
    3,758
    Total Downloaded
    184.30 MB

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    I'm surprised there haven't been more replies so far... in any case, I'll throw in my two cents:

    For the event of a single player game that has some sort of mod system that lets you make places, quests, stories, etc, I would make a way for people to upload those mods to an official server, similar to how Spore does it. If all the graphics are already on your computer, then the placement and stats could be held in small, easy to transfer files. Then all you need is to log in with your account (CD-Key or whatever comes with the game) to freely access and share those mods. This encourages people to get the game, because otherwise it is too much of a hassle to get the mods yourself, especially if there is an easy to use official server available.

    The only DRM protection I would implement would be a limitation on how many machines you can have it installed on at once, kept track of by the server. Unlike Spore, when you log in with the main account you could check what machines are currently registered and unregister old ones if necessary. This way if your computer crashes and you have to do a clean install you can always find your old install in the list and remove it. I suppose that could just encourage people to share on key and just keep unregistering others, so I would put a limit of 5 machines at once, and only a certain number of removals allowed in a day. Face it, if you are doing a clean install or upgrading stuff, not many people are going to go through more than 5 hardware changes a day, or anywhere near 5 clean installs a day. If you have that many problems your main problem probably isn't going be how to play a single player game, it would probably be mainly finding out what is wrong with your computer.

    To summarize:
    • An official mod server, accessed via CD-Key[/*:m:2q2g3l2c]
    • A limit of 5 installations at once[/*:m:2q2g3l2c]
    • A limit of 3 "de-registrations" a day[/*:m:2q2g3l2c]


    After that all you need is a low price and an easy method of distribution should take care of everything. Most of my idea is borrowed from the Spore method, just minus the strict aspects of SecuROM. After all, you can install a hacked version of Spore, but without the shared content it sucks after a short time.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    302
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbstre
    I'm surprised there haven't been more replies so far...
    I'm working on reading through the article thar Volbard linked to in the Singleplayer First thread. :P

    This is the link (Thanks Volbard):
    http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html
    It's a long one but so far I've found it intresting.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    29
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbstre
    I'm surprised there haven't been more replies so far...
    well i sort of posted my idea in the other thread - nice to see youve essentially stolen it in your post above though :P

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Osaka, Japan
    Posts
    3,758
    Total Downloaded
    184.30 MB

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Randominality
    Quote Originally Posted by Webbstre
    I'm surprised there haven't been more replies so far...
    well i sort of posted my idea in the other thread - nice to see youve essentially stolen it in your post above though :P
    Hehe, the timing was coincidental... I had this idea posted in the staff forum a week ago hoping it would be good timing... mighta been a little slow ^^;

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    302
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbstre
    I'm surprised there haven't been more replies so far... in any case, I'll throw in my two cents:

    For the event of a single player game that has some sort of mod system that lets you make places, quests, stories, etc, I would make a way for people to upload those mods to an official server, similar to how Spore does it. If all the graphics are already on your computer, then the placement and stats could be held in small, easy to transfer files. Then all you need is to log in with your account (CD-Key or whatever comes with the game) to freely access and share those mods. This encourages people to get the game, because otherwise it is too much of a hassle to get the mods yourself, especially if there is an easy to use official server available.
    Add the possibility to upload User Generated Content that can be downloaded via the game of course so your mods could actually offer some more depth than only pregenerated skins and stuff and this Idea is really great. Though in itself it's not really a game seller in itself unless the game has a good community.
    But it could add to it though. And something like this gives the game some more value to it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Webbstre
    The only DRM protection I would implement would be a limitation on how many machines you can have it installed on at once, kept track of by the server. Unlike Spore, when you log in with the main account you could check what machines are currently registered and unregister old ones if necessary. This way if your computer crashes and you have to do a clean install you can always find your old install in the list and remove it. I suppose that could just encourage people to share on key and just keep unregistering others, so I would put a limit of 5 machines at once, and only a certain number of removals allowed in a day. Face it, if you are doing a clean install or upgrading stuff, not many people are going to go through more than 5 hardware changes a day, or anywhere near 5 clean installs a day. If you have that many problems your main problem probably isn't going be how to play a single player game, it would probably be mainly finding out what is wrong with your computer.

    To summarize:
    • An official mod server, accessed via CD-Key[/*:m:7svszpxg]
    • A limit of 5 installations at once[/*:m:7svszpxg]
    • A limit of 3 "de-registrations" a day[/*:m:7svszpxg]


    After that all you need is a low price and an easy method of distribution should take care of everything. Most of my idea is borrowed from the Spore method, just minus the strict aspects of SecuROM. After all, you can install a hacked version of Spore, but without the shared content it sucks after a short time.
    I think the simples kind of DRM to implement is something like STEAM...
    The concept of steam is really great. It makes up for simplicity to buy and achieve games.
    And you have them tied to a specific account. (ID-theft, and users who don't remember their account info beeing existing issues.).
    Still i think it offers the less hassle.

    Computer crashes? Sure reinstall client. Go fetch game again and play!
    I assume by now that most people have some kind of DSL-connection or any other broadband.
    Adding limits to installation offers some unnecessary home-calls.
    But it might be as good as any DRM to implement if you buy the game off-shelf.

    Generally speaking I am againt most forms of DRM though. Not because they pose a roadblock in how easy something is to copy,pirate or whatever. But because it limits what I as a buyer might do with the product once i have it. I.E. if i want to make my CD-copy of my game that i bought i should be able to do so and use cd-emulation software to mount the disc-image and run the game using it(Though Cd-check should really be removed as a DRM soon enough... seriously!).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Osaka, Japan
    Posts
    3,758
    Total Downloaded
    184.30 MB

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    I should mention that by five installations at once just means you can only install to five computers at one time, and one each of those computers you could install and uninstall as many times as possible. As for De-Registereing/deauthenticated a computer... well how often do you have three computers with the same game under the same license crash in one day?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    165
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: March Discussion Topic: DRM and Piracy

    hi,

    badest example for me is SacredII. you get 2 code for one Game cd/dvd(?). if your pc run down, one key you lost. its very difficult (i made the expierence) to get the key back from DR desk. many people have problems and write about in forum. not everone get helped. i think its too much for customers. and i know after few weeks the game come out, first key cracks or something exists. so they onlyone who have problems with it, are the customers who buy the game.

    greetings sero

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •